At dinner tonight my wife and I were talking about this and she asked how much of my personal experiences I share with people.  That’s a good question and it made me think about how private I generally am about my private life.  My wife is just the opposite.  A new customer will come into her business and before long they are sharing all sorts of stories, likes, dislikes, pet peeves etc. It is not something I do naturally and I have always been fascinated by it.  I am good at building rapport but it usually doesn’t involve sharing a lot of my own personal information.   

I was thinking about what I wanted to say this week in this space and my wife suggested that I just “really take a giant leap into the unknown” and tell people what they probably don’t know about me. She asked what rule there was that everything I write has to do with interviewing.  Besides, she said, it sort of has to do with interviewing; you ask people to talk about themselves so, just this once, talk about yourself.  Ok, it sounds like fun and perhaps it will take my mind off the lousy economy.

I am a real list maker so it will not surprise my wife that this exercise will turn into a list of things most people don’t know about me:

1. When I was a child my family lived in Korea for four years. I can’t say I remember many Korean words but the people and experiences are still vivid memories. I had very blond hair and my best American friend had red hair. Korean children had never seen anything like it. We were like a carnival side show wherever we went.

2.  Many years ago I got my private pilot’s license.  I haven’t flown in a long time (actually several decades) and have often thought of taking it up again.  I inquired recently and was surprised to find out my license is still valid and flying again would require less effort than I thought. That’s actually a little scary. I’m not sure you want me up there landing in front of your next commercial flight. 

3.  During summers in college I fought forest fires with a team of U.S. Forest Service fire fighters.  It was a very cool job and paid for most of my college.  Last year my youngest son, who is a commercial helicopter pilot, worked for the Forest Service dropping water and fire retardant on the fires in California.  His job was much cooler than mine.

4.  I used to jump out of airplanes in the Army. I can’t tell you how many people over the years have simply asked me – why would you do that?  People seem more impressed with my apparent lack of judgment than with the amount of courage it took for me to overcome my fear of heights. I made mostly “night jumps” (ones with my eyes closed).

5.  I used to raise dairy goats.  My excuse is that I did it for the amusement of my kids. I am sure there were other valid reasons I just can’t remember now because there is nothing nastier than a Billy goat.

Ok, that’s enough.  This is feeling sort of weird.  I wonder if any of these experiences would be probed in an interview.

Every now and then I pull out my old reference materials for the evaluation interview process.  I will usually find a useful morsel of information that I have forgotten and will try to incorporate it into my current process.  I was recently reading a book on interviewing written by a well-known author on the subject back in the 70s.  I actually had the opportunity to attend an interviewing course he taught and what I learned became the foundation for the process I still use.  While many of the tactics now seem a little old fashioned and less relevant in today’s world, the concepts he taught are still applicable and I often find inspiration, or at least food for thought, when I review them.

During my recent review of this particular book I found an interesting passage that made me think about how times have changed and how different the work environment has become since I was a “Personnel Rep” at the beginning of my career. The author was discussing how to evaluate the number of jobs the candidate had held in his or her career.  This is what he wrote: “Frequency of job change is not particularly unusual during late adolescence or during the time the individual is in his early twenties. But if this pattern extends through the late twenties and thereafter, it can be assumed that the individual may have some rather deep-seated problems”.  Wow! Deep-seated problems . . . I wonder how that language would fly in one of my written evaluations today.

How times have changed.  The old successful career model allowed for a little experimentation at the beginning of the career but featured “settling in” to a solid company with little to no job change for the balance of your work life.  I must admit that when I got back into interviewing full time about five years ago it was a bit of a challenge to depart from that model and accept that people could move every few years and still add value.  There are still “job hoppers” who need to be avoided, but there are now any number of valid reasons for making a change. The “c

ontract” between employer and employee has evolved and is significantly different than it was in the past. The trick is to identify those with the “deep-seated problems” who do lack the maturity and stability most employers are looking for.  I spend quite a bit of time in my interviews on what I call the person’s career-management decisions. I tell the candidate up front that I am interested in the evolution of his or her career and alert them that we will be exploring those decisions in some detail.  I often have to pull the candidate back after a short answer on a job change decision and ask probing questions about what was missing in that job, what he or she was looking for in the next job, and what it will take to be satisfied in this next role.  The conversation is usually very helpful.

I don’t mean to poke fun at the language from the book I quoted above.   There still are people who change jobs too often and for the wrong reasons.  And, it is still our job to identify those people. I think it is just a little more complicated in today’s business environment and requires some skillful probing. 

I have worked with horses most of my life and I have spent about 12 years raising, training and selling colts in my spare time. Although, as my wife often reminds me, when you have 20 horses on your place and 7 or 8 of them are foals there is no such thing as spare time. About 15 years ago I discovered a new training method for gentling horses. The techniques include “imprinting” them at birth to desensitize them to humans and “resistance free training” which abandons the old horse “breaking” methods and focuses on taking the fear away and establishing a positive relationship with the horse. It works amazingly well. As you work with a horse initially you discover its comfort zone – where it can be located in proximity to you without moving away from you. If you take a step too close to the comfort zone the horse steps away. If you step away from the comfort zone the horse will usually step toward you, either out of curiosity or as a sign that it recognizes you as the boss. The more you work with the horse the more the comfort zone moves closer to you until the horse would actually rather be standing next to you than away from you. It’s like having an invisible rope attached to the horse. You take a step back; it takes a step forward, just to be near you – sort of like the relationship you have with your spouse or partner.

Years ago I found a wonderful application of this training method in the interview process. Each candidate has a comfort zone at the beginning of the interview. Some will develop rapport instantly and your conversation will proceed as if you have known each other for years. Other candidates will take time to warm to you and it is your job to close that gap so they are comfortable enough to open up to you. This can be particularly challenging on the telephone where neither of you has the benefit of reading facial expressions or body language. Where I use physical presence in and out of the horse’s comfort zone to make progress toward relationship building, I use tone of voice, pacing of the questions and other rapport building techniques to ensure the candidate is comfortable. I am not a fan of putting pressure on the candidate to see how he or she will handle it. There is plenty of time for that later in the process – if that’s your style. That is not to say I don’t put a little pressure on occasionally. I do, but only when I sense the candidate will be able to reply in a manner that will give me useful information.

If you move toward a horse in an excited and aggressive manner it will back off. People do that also. I remember interviewing with some pretty tough customers early in my career. I think they believed they had to be aggressive and hard on you to see if you could take it. I don’t think it was very effective. I believe taking time to build rapport at the beginning of the interview and getting a feel for the candidate’s comfort zone yields much more useful information. The purpose of my initial evaluation is to get a really good read on experiences and competencies. There is time later to see how the candidate handles stress.

  I met a lot of new people this last week, mostly members of my new daughter-in-law’s extended family.  There was plenty of opportunity to practice my craft but, I resisted the temptation and am quite proud of how I was able to just make casual conversation without probing for information.  My brain seems to be programmed with information-gathering questions and if I am not careful they just slip right out. It was particularly difficult when they found out what I do for a living and several people actually asked me to demonstrate technique.  I pleasantly declined.  The wedding was perfect and the new couple headed off to Thailand for their honeymoon.  My wife and I headed for the Rocky Mountains.

I like Missouri but the Colorado Rockies really feel like home.  I went to college in Colorado and fell in love with the mountains instantly.  I have been visiting them all of my adult life and have tried several times to figure out how to make my home there.  My wife and I force ourselves to put our busy lives on hold and visit three or four times each year. Our favorite activities are snow shoeing in the winter and hiking during the other seasons. Being engaged in those activities in the mountains provides a wonderful opportunity for reflection and I must admit my mind often wanders back to what I do for a living and how I can be better at it.  I often gain inspiration from the beauty of the environment and from the magnificent wildlife we encounter daily.  This trip, inspiration for my job included the following:

Be a better listener.  If you get rid of all the stuff going on in your head while       
someone is talking and really listen it is amazing what you can hear. Don’t
just listen for an answer you are looking for.

Be more patient. Things will happen when they are supposed to. Don’t rush them. Great candidates are out there. You will find them. Don’t settle.

Be more alert for what makes a person unique. Look for qualities that will enhance their ability to do the job, even if those qualities aren’t in your competency model.

Learn from each interview. Make yourself look for a process improvement after each interview. Practice continuous improvement.

I’m not sure exactly what it is about communing with nature that makes me aware of these kinds of things. I think part of it has to do with just getting away from my environment and my routine.  I’ve learned that you can get better at your job even when you’re away from it and think you are disengaged. It seems the brain knows what you are supposed to be working on and allows you to relax while sneaking in a little work on the side.

Lately I have needed a little energy boost. My wife and I are still exhausted from our battle with the Mississippi River this summer. Our house is a block from the river and we watched it rise from less than 20 feet to 37 feet, flooding most of our town and putting about five feet of water in our basement. In addition to our own troubles we had to sweat out my brother’s recent encounter with hurricane Ike. He lives in the Clear Lake area between Houston and Galveston and saw the eye of the giant hurricane pass right over his neighborhood. While many of his friends and business associates lost everything, his home was somehow spared. It was still a tough time emotionally for all of us in the family. So, I have been running on an empty tank lately. A few days ago I talked with a candidate who really inspired me with her enthusiasm for life and the work she has done for over 20 years with physical rehab patients. I was particularly impressed with her record of significant and continuous improvement of patient-care clinical processes and the genuine delight she seems to receive from watching patients and families make progress as a direct result of the help she and her team provide. She loves the work so much she calls in daily to stay engaged while on vacation. I actually came away from that interview feeling reenergized. I finished a couple of jobs my wife has been gently prodding me to complete and started a new project to surprise her. I didn’t let on that I was inspired by another woman.

 I am a life-long member of one major political party. My wife is a life-long member of the other major political party.  It makes for some interesting dinner conversation. It is amazing how much you can love someone who is wrong all the time.  Actually, we are both probably closer to the middle on most issues than either one of us is willing to admit. This year we find ourselves, for the first time ever, voting for the same presidential candidate.  I am pleased to say the candidate is in my party.  I would love to think I had something to do with influencing my wife to cross that political barbed wire fence but I know better than to suggest that. I just sit quietly and pretend. I think she wonders why I smile so much lately.

One of the things we always agree on is how annoying it is that politicians refuse to answer the questions put to them.  They usually have something specific they want to talk about and that is the answer no matter what the question. I have often thought journalists could benefit from a good behavioral interviewing course. They ask far too many questions that can be answered with a yes or no and, of course, politicians never say yes or no.  I wonder if they would be more successful getting the candidate to stick to the issue if they started the question with “Tell me about a time when you….”, “Give me an example of how you …..”, or “How did you react when…..”?  I’m probably naïve but maybe that would help.  I think I am a pretty good interviewer and I would love to give it a try with this year’s crop of national candidates, especially …. Whoops, almost gave myself away.  Since they probably don’t read this blog site maybe I will e-mail some of my questions to them.

It frustrates me when the people I am interviewing meander.  I don’t have much patience for it.  I like building rapport and hearing them talk a little about what interests them but when it is time to get down to business, I want direct answers to my questions. I try hard to phrase each question so there is little wiggle-room and behavioral interview techniques have been really helpful in doing that.  Some people like to tell stories and talk about the organization instead of specifically what they have accomplished. That information may be interesting but it does not help my evaluation of their competencies. I don’t hesitate to get them back on track with a gentle reminder of the question when that happens.  I may have to interrupt and get them refocused but they usually respond positively to that.  If they don’t, it tells me something about them. Only once in my career have I had a person tell me he didn’t like my interview style and hang up on me.  Oh yeah, my wife does that sometimes but I don’t think that counts.

I hate it when people tell me they are going to do something and don’t do it.  My wife and I have had our share of experiences with people who tell us they are going to do work for us and then never show up. Last spring we asked for two bids to do some major repair work on our old garage.  After being assured we would get the estimates in a few days we never heard from them again. We have had the same problem with people who promise to do work and either don’t show up or call a week later to say something came up.  I don’t have a lot of patience for this sort of inconsiderate behavior.  I usually end up doing the work myself.
Unfortunately, we have the same problem in our industry.  One of the top complaints from job seekers is that executive search firms interview them and then forget them.  Many of the people I interview ask at the end of the interview whether they will hear back from us.  They tell me of their experiences waiting weeks and even months without hearing a word following an interview.  Not only are their expectations to be treated courteously reasonable but timely follow-up is essential to maintaining our credibility. 

I understand that one of the reasons we all hesitate to commit to a follow-up date with the candidate is that we don’t always control the process, the client does.  We want to have something to tell the candidate, one way or the other, so we put off that phone call one more day. Days turn into weeks, frustration builds, credibility is damaged and candidates are lost. Candidates are usually very realistic. They know decisions will not always be made in a few days. They just expect to be kept in the loop and a one-minute follow-up call to apprise them of the process status will usually suffice. If the decision process stretches over several weeks, or even months, a call each week to let them know they are still being considered is not only courteous, it establishes trust and credibility.
We try to help our clients understand in our intake process that top notch candidates will not wait, will have multiple offers, and will more than likely need to move through the process in a few weeks, not a few months.  We try to be as aggressive as we can in helping our clients understand managing this issue is necessary if we are to help close the deal with the top talent.  We also work hard to ensure that we have a process inside our own organization to ensure candidates don’t slip through the cracks. 

I get lots of positive feedback from candidates about our interview process and I get e-mails or phone calls quite regularly telling me that they appreciate our follow-up.  When we don’t meet their expectations they let us know that also and with all of the forms of electronic communication available today you can bet candidates are talking with each other about us and our service. Clients also use that information to check out our reputation. We try to monitor what is being said about us and make sure that the buzz out there is positive. We can control most of it by doing the job right. It only takes a minute to follow up and it is amazing how doing the simple things right can set you apart from the competition.

One of my goals is to have a relationship with each candidate by the end of the interview. If I keep that in mind and let it guide me in the conversation, the person will trust me, open up more, and share a broader range of experiences, strengths, development needs and emotions. This is not a trick.I genuinely care about who they are and what they have to say.I don’t want to just fill a job; I want there to be a perfect fit. I can do a better job of facilitating that win-win situation for the candidate and client if I get to know the candidate personally. My wife has helped me learn how to do that, and other things, without saying a word to me about it directly; a skill my father also possessed.I don’t mind learning from family members as long as their teaching process is subtle. My wife would tell you I don’t take instruction well. I think I have just discovered the secret to our successful relationship; she doesn’t tell me what to do and I don’t give her feedback.

This week I was visiting my son who teaches in the education department of an upper Midwest state university. He had the opportunity this summer to interview candidates for adjunct professor roles in the school’s undergraduate education program. I was interested in his interview experience with one candidate in particular. He asked this candidate who, among all the scholars in the history of education in this country, had influenced her most. She said she couldn’t think of any. He asked her what books she might consider using as required reading for the students in the class she would teach. She said she couldn’t think of any. He asked her what books she had read recently on education that might help her with the class. She said she couldn’t think of any. She didn’t get the job.

I used to ask those kinds of questions in my interviews and I have sort of drifted away from them. I think my excuse is that I don’t have time to cover everything I want to cover. I understand that the specific questions my son asked probably have more relevance in an academic environment. I recruit mostly in the corporate world and when I do work in the academic area most of my interviews are with administrative, not academic, candidates. However, probing a person’s professional influences, their professional affiliations and even their reading habits can reveal a lot about passion for their job and how they keep up with what is happening in their profession, no matter what their area of expertise. Perhaps just as important are the insights these sorts of questions can give you into the breadth of the person’s interests and their intellectual curiosity. In my view, both of those things are important dimensions of a person and can be valuable in assessing their potential value to an organization.

This experience also reminded me that I am not reading as much lately as I should. I don’t want to be the pot calling the kettle black so, I have lots of good excuses; my house flooded, my horse has been sick, I have to get ready for my son’s wedding across the country in Oregon, I’ve been watching political primaries and conventions on MSNBC for nine months straight in the evenings, and I haven’t gotten those stronger glasses I’ve been meaning to buy. Oh yeah, the new light bulbs they are encouraging us to buy (and I do want to be green) don’t give off the right kind of light for reading. Ok, so I need to do better. If you have read any new and good books lately on the evaluation interview let me know. If I don’t hear from you I will assume there aren’t any. If that is the case maybe that will be the incentive I need to start writing that book I have been outlining in my head for the last ten years. Actually, that’s a good idea. I think I’ll start working on that – if my horse gets better.

While working as a Human Resource Director for Monsanto some years ago I had the opportunity to work with a business unit leader who later became the company’s CEO. One of the many lessons I learned from him was the value of seeking exceptional talent instead of filling jobs with people who met the experience requirements. I must admit that at first the notion was a bit disturbing for those of us who had grown up in a successful organization that had built that success around fairly traditional systems for hiring, promoting and succession planning. We wanted to see people with just the right experience and background hired and promoted through the structured career path models we had grown up with. Hiring someone because they were really smart and had lots of raw talent and promoting them quickly without going through all the traditional developmental positions seemed a recipe for disaster.

What I came to learn over the course of several years was that really talented people with exceptional critical thinking skills can often add so much more value than someone who just knows how to do the job and meets the functional core competency requirements. Don’t get me wrong, I am a great believer in the value of managing around core competencies. It is just that sometimes we get so focused on whether or not the person knows how to do the job that we fail to see the potential value they can bring.

For large organizations with the luxury of having developmental talent pools, hiring for potential value is not so hard. For small organizations with limited resources and the need for someone to do the job right now, it can be much more challenging. However, I have seen small organizations take chances on people who clearly did not meet the traditional experience requirements and celebrate that decision a year or two down the road after the person was allowed to bring new dimensions to the job and add new value to the company.

We recently helped an academic institution make a hiring decision for a President’s staff position based, in large part, on exceptional critical thinking skills and potential for leading culture change. The person did not have all of the traditional functional experience and it was a decision clearly outside the box. I’m betting on success.

My advice is to sometimes focus more on candidates with raw talent and potential. It may take a little longer to get them up to speed on “the job”, but they will help take your organization to new places.